Melissa (warmellie) wrote in phil240,

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science vs religion

This community holds a profound interest to me because I have always stuggled with how to get in touch with my spiritual being..yet my scientific brain wouldn't shut up long enough for me to get anywhere. I actually verged on Atheism for a while, but I just couldn't stop fully believing God exists. There were to many patterns I saw..too many things that had to have some devine presence involved.

It didn't help that I live directly in the Bible belt and the very mention of Darwin sends everyone running away screaming in terror. Yet I could see evolution and understand it.
It wasn't until I had a grand revolation one day and realized not everything about God will be found in the Bible..and evolution is a tool God uses. After all, my spiritual self has evolved over time into what it is now...why not my body. I desire so much to put one of those Darwin fish stickers on my car because to isn't an insult to is praise for his works. Okay, maybe only I can see that..and that is precisely why I haven't done it..that and my husbands threats...

Anyway, enough of my ramblings.. I guess I just wanted to say hello. And I don't think the masses will ever be able to intergrate science and religion...but I plan to teach both to my child.
Both should be the person can decide for themselves and not end up listening to paranoid conclusions or false ideas of someone else's viewpoints. They can 'get it' for themselves....

This is just my thoughts I guess.
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I have much the same issues. I'm a wavering athiest. One moment I cannot comphrehend a universe with a God, and the next I cannot see how there isn't a God. S i know where you're coming from. (Growing up in a very catholic family really helps too.)

Anyhow, I don't think science and religion can be integrated for one big reason. The word God holds too many reasons. Are we looking for a theory of everything or a man with a beard in the sky?

Anyhow, welcome. :)
<>scratches his head<>

Personally, I wasn't aware that there was any conflict between science and religion that a moron didn't erect. A good scientist cannot be an athiest, since he'd have to violate one of the big tenets of science- draw a conclusion based upon too little evidence. Seriously, the most scientific stance would be agnostisim, since good science does not draw a conclusion one way or another.

I think the big hurdle is the traditional anthropomorphic view of god. Thinking that god is going to think like we think, feel like we feel, or do anything like we do is rather foolish. It also will never mesh with the reality of the situation...

You want god? Read a physics book

Look at it this way- any religious text is going to be a flawed translation, for most of the worlds religions (can't think of any that truly originated among english speakers aside from discordianism). The bible for example- Hebrew is extremely difficult to turn into english, the thought processes of the language and the shades of meaning are too divergent.

If you want to know god, you'll have to study the one work of his that can't be distorted in translations, that can't be edited to fit in with some priest's theological ideals-

The World itself.

If you want to understand someone, and don't have that someone handy, but have volumes of poetry and artwork that they have created, you can get a very good idea of the person. Not complete, but it's a pretty good start. The Universe is a primary source onto the nature of god.

Or maybe the universe is god...
quantum physics is the answer *giggle*
"...evolution is a tool God uses."

I fully agree. It reminds me of something Stephen Hawking said, that considering all we know about the laws of the Universe, God might have simply given it a shove and then left it alone. God probably has other things to do aside from tend to our Universe.
exactly, but that isn't to say God didn't create man. that seems to be one major arguement against evolution. i mean God is he did that too. ya know? you can omit the details and still get the same results...

Science and religion, I believe, are two ways to describe the same worldspace. Obviously, there are areas where either can be found wanting -- for example, religion can't explain how the entire fossil record came into existence (unless God decided to play a practical joke on mankind) and science will never be able to predict emergent higher level systems from lower level systems. (Unless you REALLY believe the OOPS! theory of creation -- Why is there a universe in the first place? OOPS! That's the way the quantum die rolls!)

Can you look at two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, and say, 'You know, this'll become a clear liquid given enough of these'?

The trouble with science is that everything contains the capacity to transcend itself, and science has no way to predict that. Even a rock can be shaped to be given a meaning that wasn't inherent in it. Even chaos theory shows an inherent capacity for order to emerge from chaotic systems.

The trouble with religion is that it often makes us complacent about how things REALLY are. I say, 'This flower is beautiful.' And without looking, the kneejerk response would be 'Yeah, it was made that way.' 'By whom?' 'By God.' 'Look at it, DAMMIT!'

Science and religion are fine, but they should never stop you from checking things out for yourself. Or from looking through both viewpoints.
very well stated...
I'm not sure it really matters if there is a God or not. What's more important is how we handle the events that we actually might be able to control. God doesn't really want us to know for sure he/she exists, otherwise, we would know for sure.

We have more evidence to suggest that our planet is going to be in the path of an asteroid after the year 2076 than the existence of a super human being. (Rogue Asteroid AN10)

One's time may be better well spent on how one should behave, not whether there is some higher power who can pull our strings if it wanted to.

From a spiritual standpoint, God seems to dwell in the hearts of many humans, since so many want God to exist. It's comforting, mainly because so much doesn't make sense to us yet. So, even a scientist can take comfort in having faith/religion/spirituality.

Then again, religion could be viewed as different from spirituality or faith, as faith and spirituality don't necessarily entail organized religions. And there are definitely some sciences and some religions that don't mix. Even so, that's okay.

There are so many inconsistencies in this world, it's not unreasonable to find someone who can be religious and scientific at the same time.